LSVtec b20Vtec INFO

[Markpa]

Heres some info I gathered from the web.

First some basics:

Either the Ls block or the CRV block can be found at a junkyard. Call around and look. They arent that hard to find. Especially the ls blocks. Dime a dozen. Look to pay about 250-300 for the ls block.or about 800-1000 for the CRV block. If you are going to resleeve the ls block then obviously it doesnt pay to buy the crv block. Save some money and buy me something.

The benefit of the CRV block over the LS block is the size. The cranks are IDENTICAL but the b20 (crv) has an 84 mm bore as opposed to a 81 mm bore that the ls block has. One issue i see people say alot is "Does it matter the mileage of my motor". Not really no. You are going to rip it apart, replace everything and put it back together anyway. The only thing that will really matter in this issue is the condition of the cylinder walls. Even if in bad shape however they can be bored then honed and then are ready to go. CRV block are kinda tricky though. JE only makes 84mm and 85mm pistons. This means unless the block is practically brand new (like under 15k on it) you will have to bore it 40 thousandths (spelling?) over if you intend on using these products. Ls blocks are basically always ok, unless ya spun a bearing in which case dont even bother with the thing. A bore and a Hone will fix most problems.

The advantage of the LS block is that there is a vast array of Honda pistons you can use. CTR, JDM ITR and USDM ITR all make good canidates. These are cheap (330 or so with rings, most of the time they are cheaper) and since honda is so damn cool.....they make oversized. So get this one: buy a used ls block at the junkyard. Bore it over and then use CTR pistons along with the stock ls everything else and ya done! Thanks honda!

But.....CRV blocks are a lil different and here is why they more money. Honda never intended on making the b20 a high performance motor. So why make pistons that are the same bore? They dont really. Just stock B20 pistons. which yield a stupid low CR. And also the valve reliefs on the stock CRV pistons are not big enough to accept the valves of VTEC heads. So if using larger cams you cant really play with the cam gears too much. or else problems will occur. So what do you do? Buy aftermarket right?!? 500 for slugs. then 300 for rods. So right away thats 800-900 dollars more then the
Ls block...But you WILL HAVE MORE POWER!

Now as for parts you will need with either motor. These are NEEDS not WANTS. They are a part of either build and will not be listed in the motors simply because we will assume you will get them.
1. New rod and main bearings. Please dont ask what kind ya need. they are different for every motor.
2. New head gasket, Oil pan gasket, rear main seal, Oil return gasket, oil filter
3. Thrust washers
4. fittings for running the external oil line.
5. You must have the entire rotating assembly balanced!!!!!!!
6. New VTEC Water pump.
7. New VTEC oil pump.
8. New VTEC Timing belt.
9. BE SURE TO MATCH THE WATER PUMP AND TIMING BELT. VTEC=VTEC and Non-vtec=Non-vtec. otherwise your car will
die a very painfull death.!
10. We both prefer ARP bolts to stock. Stock is usable but ARP is cheap insurance.

We also assume that you have bolt-ons already. Intake, Header with a 2.5 inch collector and a good exaust.
If you dont have these.....get them.....NOW!


Like said above. We will assume that all the motors being built will use this stuff...hence: we will not list these parts in the total build up parts list.


BLOCK SET-UP

LSVTEC block MILD: (250)
CTR/TYPE-R pistons (330)
LS rods


LSVTEC block MEDIUM: (250)
JE 11.5 pistons (Ross also make pistons for this application) (485)
EAGLE rods (350)


LSVTEC bock WILD: (250)
Resleeve with Golden Eagle Sleeves 85 MM bore (1000)
JE 12.5/13.0 pistons (Ross also will do) (485)
CROWER connecting rods (500)


B20VTEC block MILD: (900)
Stock B20 pistons
Stock rods


B20VTEC block MEDUIM: (900)
JE 11.5 or 12.5 pistons (485)
EAGLE rods (350)


B20VTEC block WILD: (900)
GOLDEN EAGLE 86MM SLEEVES (1000)
Custom 12.5/13.0 Pistons (500)
95 mm Crank (800???)
Deck Plate (machine shop cost)


HEAD PACKAGES WITH LSVTECS/B20VTECS

MILD:
Type-R head with skunk2 stage 1 cams, skunk2 cam gears.
($800-$1200 full head, $600 for cams, 200 for gears)

SI head with skunk2 stage 1 cams OR JUN type 2, Type-R Valve Train, Skunk2 cam gears OR JUN cam gears, Type-r Inner and Outer springs w/ retainers .
($400-$600 for head, $600 skunk2 cams / $800 for JUN type 2, $200 for Skunk2 cam gears / JUN cam gears?, Type-R valve train $350)

GSR head: Similar as SI head

MEDIUM:
Type-R head with skunk2 stage 2 OR JUN type 3, Skunk2 valve train OR Port flow INNER-OUTER valve springs TI Titanium Retainers OR JUN valve train, Skunk2 valves, Skunk2 cam gears OR JUN cam gears .
($800-$1200 full head, $650 for Skunk2 cams / $850 for JUN 3 cams, $440 skunk2 valve train / $380 JUN valve train, $200 Skunk2 cam gears / JUN cam gears?

SI Head: ($400-$600 for the head) Similar to Type-R setup

GSR Head: ($400-$600 for the head) Similar to Type-R setup


WILD:
GSR head with TODA SPEC C cams, TODA cam gears, TODA springs, titanium retainers, TODA Individual throttle body / or TWM I.T.B.
($400-$600 for the head, $1900 for TODA Head package includes SPEC C cams-cam gears-valve train, $2500 for TODA Individual Throttle Body, $2000 for TWM Individual Throttle Body

SI head: Similar to GSR setup

TYPE-R head: Similar to GSR setup (add an extra 300-500 bucks for the head if purchased seperatly)


Tranny Info for Frankenstein motors

For the most part any GSR or Type R tranny is good for these motor's. The B16 tranny is not as strong as these. The differential is actually physically smaller then on these trannies. This could be due to the smaller motor, cost cutting....whatever the case may be. I dont trust it.
I broke mine on street tires and have seen many others do the same. Yes it will work. Yes it will bolt up...But i wouldnt use it.....Unless you have too. That tranny with a Quaife lsd would be good. The gearing in that and the ITR are the same so it would be ok. for performance.
But still why bother.......just get a 1.8 tranny!


DECENT setup for the street: (500-600)
Any GSR or Type R tranny

NICE setup for street: (1700)
GSR tranny
Quaife LSD
JDM Final Drive
or...
JDM ITR Tranny with 4.785 FD

SWEET setup for the street: (2600)
Type R tranny
Quaife LSD
JDM Final drive

HOLY GOD setup for the street: (3200)
Type R tranny
Quaife LSD
ATS 4.929 Final Drive
Gsr 5th gear

For an all out track car i would would like this setup most: (4000 +)
Type R tranny
Quaife 5.1 Final Drive
Spool differential
Custom Kaaz Gearing


ECU Setups for Frank motors

You have a few choices here:

GREAT setup for the street: (550)
P28 rechipped with a JDM B16 proggy with a higher rev limit.
VAFC
Many people dount this setup because it is a "stock" program. DONT. This is a great setup, and when
paired with the VAFC provides very good tunability and since it is a stock program it is much less prone to detonation for timing reasons. There are a few people going very fast with this setup.....some are even on this message forum. Our pro car at www.b20vtec.com is another. 11.53@114mph with this exact setup.

ANOTHER setup for the street: (500)
P28 with hondata
Dont matter what you call it Hondata works well for street cars. make good power while having good drivability.

More ECU choices:
Accel DFI 7.0 2100
Speedpro 2100 ( comes with wideband)
AEM EMS 1400 or so
LINK not sure


Fuel setups for Frank Motors

Fuel systems are actually pretty easy with these motors. They arent that hard to figure out.

BASIC setup for Ls/Vtec: (550)
RC 270 cc injectors
Holley 190 fuel pump
adjustable FPR with gauge

BIG setup for Ls/Vtec: (550-600)
RC 310 cc injectors
Holley 255 pump
adjustable FPR with gauge

BASIC setup for CRVTEC: (550-600)
RC 310 cc injectors
Holley 255 pump
adjustable FPR with gauge

BIG setup for CRVTEC: (600)
RC 370 cc injectors
Holley 255 pump
adjustable FPR

If doing ITB then the kit will come with an adjustable FPR and 440 cc Injectors.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/lsvtec/lsvtec.php
http://b20vtec.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56400

[iTK]

very good information
thanks!

[OverrRyde]

Wow thats great! I understand a little bit more now, im hesitating going either b16 all motor or ls-vtec/b20-vtec

thanks

[Ej1]

dont go all motor b16...do a ls or b20 vtec man...more displacement, and it will out perform a built b16 any day..."there is no replacement for displacement" lol

i have my lsvtec and i love it...
but i need to build the head.

[Jsal]

Good Info man :D

[b20ek]

Wow thats great! I understand a little bit more now, im hesitating going either b16 all motor or ls-vtec/b20-vtec

thanks

my friends selling a built b16 head if interested,.

[b20vtec230whp]

my 2000 b16 trans lasted 8 weeks then blew apart *#$@! 230whp and 155tq:mad:

[b20vtec230whp]

o nowi have a gsr trans!

[bbTeg]

i need parts!!!! parts parts parts!!!!

[rankin_wanavtec]

I have been looking for a thread like this all my life. thank you.

[sirguy01]

what does crvtec mean?

[Blacktie]

Good info

Woot im goin on the right track hahaha

[Buff4Prez]

here's a little more info

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1676914

[hondaholic]

here's a little more info

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1676914

(y)bam's thread is the best

[Blacktie]

^^

Agreed

[integraDA9]

lol damn i need more stuff :|

off what car can i get the vtec water pump and oil pump from? what do they normally go for?

I have a b18b block, so will one off a GSR or SiR work?

[Blacktie]

Itr/gsr are the ones to use the 22T one but yea if u get that u gotta get the matching timing belt

[integraDA9]

so which block should the oil pump and the water pump come from?

[Blacktie]

you get them from honda man you buy them new not used lol

[Dominik]

You should have given this info to Joe... The first time he built his motor.

[sikkkkktegra]

its all good, it lead to a bigger better crazy motor build... even though my pocket is empty... BUT ITS FAST!

[AnthonyR]

this is an old post no?

[TeHFuZZMaN]

lol damn i need more stuff :|

off what car can i get the vtec water pump and oil pump from? what do they normally go for?

I have a b18b block, so will one off a GSR or SiR work?

one off of a GSR or a SIR (B16) will work, and that's what you will need because you will be needing a vtec timing belt aswell.

so which block should the oil pump and the water pump come from?

any block that's a vtec block i.e: GSR,Type-R, B16 (except H-series motors)

[integraDA9]

one off of a GSR or a SIR (B16) will work, and that's what you will need because you will be needing a vtec timing belt aswell.



any block that's a vtec block i.e: GSR,Type-R, B16 (except H-series motors)


yah thats what i thought, damn now i have to call up honda on wednesday :|

lol maybe i can sneek in a boxing day sale haha

[intense4thgen]

lots of good info in this thread! i did some digging on the subject and everyone seems to think this motor is a disaster waiting to happen but i have faith in the little bitch. im building one as we speak (b20/vtec turbo) and there is lots of hear say about the hole engine in general but its all in the tune. Everyone hears b20 and the thinks weak sleeves but with a little work these can be strenghened and with a little planing it can be reliable. my block consists of b20b block custom block gaurd (gord bush) stock crank, eagle rods, mahle coated pistons 84.5mm, arp main and head studs and b16a head. im shooting for 300 WHP

[TeHFuZZMaN]

yah thats what i thought, damn now i have to call up honda on wednesday :|

lol maybe i can sneek in a boxing day sale haha

brand new a type R oil pump can be bought for about $100, if not at the dealer definatly on ebay; and the water pump you can get for about $50ish.

[AnthonyR]

i wouldnt buy the injectors

h22 are good enough, running 231whp on h22 injectors no problem.

[BoostedEh2]

^310s are not good for that power...what are you at 100% duty cycle?

[2kjdmhatch]

310's for 231 whp? everything i have read reccomends 440ish for low to mid 200whp, id think 310 would be maxed at the hp range anthony is at, im buying 525's for a mid 200whp build, better safe than sorry i figure

[Wildoutwhitegsr]

^310s are not good for that power...what are you at 100% duty cycle?

310cc are perfectly fine for 230whp

you do know you can up the fuel pressure....

310's for 231 whp? everything i have read reccomends 440ish for low to mid 200whp, id think 310 would be maxed at the hp range anthony is at, im buying 525's for a mid 200whp build, better safe than sorry i figure

The reason why everyone recommends it because they're the easiest to find. Try buying RC 310's or 370cc injectors. 440's are so much easier to purchase without being on backorder. 525cc are for sure overkill unless your boosted and can see yourself going for more in the future. That or your getting the 525cc for really cheap.

IE. http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/wildoutwhitegsr/FuelInjectors.jpg

[2kjdmhatch]

in the graph it says duty cycle should not exceed .80 yet the duty cycle it shows on the chart is .88 lol, thing is im going boost (JRSC) starting with 6psi and most likely moving up when i get bored in the future, thats my reason for going bigger, that way it gives me room to upgrade other things in the future

[Wildoutwhitegsr]

in the graph it says duty cycle should not exceed .80 yet the duty cycle it shows on the chart is .88 lol, thing is im going boost (JRSC) starting with 6psi and most likely moving up when i get bored in the future, thats my reason for going bigger, that way it gives me room to upgrade other things in the future

It's a rough guide to follow 88% duty cycle is fine 92% is pushing it and you definitely don't want to be above 95%, but as you see 310's are fine for 230whp. Also if you get an upgraded fuel pump or run direct battery voltage to the fuel pump they'll flow more at the rail, but that depends on fuel setup you have. Then you just have a fuel gauge on your fuel rail and see how much pressure your running at the rail and adjust the calculator accordingly.

If your supercharging a B-series 550cc are perfect.

[arc_55]

It's a rough guide to follow 88% duty cycle is fine 92% is pushing it and you definitely don't want to be above 95%, but as you see 310's are fine for 230whp. Also if you get an upgraded fuel pump or run direct battery voltage to the fuel pump they'll flow more at the rail, but that depends on fuel setup you have. Then you just have a fuel gauge on your fuel rail and see how much pressure your running at the rail and adjust the calculator accordingly.

If your supercharging a B-series 550cc are perfect.


I would aim for duty cycle to be 70-80% max and no more. The higher the duty cycle the more abuse on the injectors and the more likely hood for them to fail. If an injector does fail and lean out one cylinder it can lead to serious engine damage. The higher duty cycle is harder on the coil which creates excessive heat which can cause it to fail. Some people raise fuel pressure, but the downsides to this are poor atmoization and if the pressure is great enough (if equipped with a variable vacuum) can resist the injector from opening up at all.

The fuel pump mod explained also is not a very good idea either as you are exceeding the amperage in the circuit, which in return causes similar issues. If too much amperage is applied to the fuel pump it will overwork the pump and cause windings and brushes and any other connections to fail. This will make it very unreliable and a matter of time before the pump has gone bad. As you are increasing amperage resistance increases which causes this heat.This is the whole reason we upgrade to a higher flowing pump. The pump is designed to run more pressure at the manufactuers corresponding amperage, which in return keeps heat down (resitance). When a factory fuel system is in place and a walbro or other similar pumps are installed it increases pressure because the fuel return line is not large enough therefore resisting the fuel and raising pressure.

Some poeple do not understand the importance of these components because it is never really well explained to them. The car will run with the injectors at higher duty cycle and the pump running at higher amperage, but it will be a matter of time before these componenets fail.

[Wildoutwhitegsr]

I would aim for duty cycle to be 70-80% max and no more. The higher the duty cycle the more abuse on the injectors and the more likely hood for them to fail. If an injector does fail and lean out one cylinder it can lead to serious engine damage. The higher duty cycle is harder on the coil which creates excessive heat which can cause it to fail. Some people raise fuel pressure, but the downsides to this are poor atmoization and if the pressure is great enough (if equipped with a variable vacuum) can resist the injector from opening up at all.

The fuel pump mod explained also is not a very good idea either as you are exceeding the amperage in the circuit, which in return causes similar issues. If too much amperage is applied to the fuel pump it will overwork the pump and cause windings and brushes and any other connections to fail. This will make it very unreliable and a matter of time before the pump has gone bad. As you are increasing amperage resistance increases which causes this heat.This is the whole reason we upgrade to a higher flowing pump. The pump is designed to run more pressure at the manufactuers corresponding amperage, which in return keeps heat down (resitance). When a factory fuel system is in place and a walbro or other similar pumps are installed it increases pressure because the fuel return line is not large enough therefore resisting the fuel and raising pressure.

Some poeple do not understand the importance of these components because it is never really well explained to them. The car will run with the injectors at higher duty cycle and the pump running at higher amperage, but it will be a matter of time before these componenets fail.


Agreed and this is where theory and real life experience collide. I agree with you on both points fuel pump and injectors, but it doesn't mean it's that unsafe. If you wanted to further on the theory, you shouldn't upgrade to a higher flow fuel pump/bigger injectors anyways, because the fuel lines are rated for stock pressure thus weakening the lines over time. Same with too much pressure in the fuel rail/lines can actually decrease efficiency because of the excessive flow and back up the fuel return line to the tank.

Same can be said above revving to 9200rpm versus stock 8400rpm. Same can be said that driving with an itr tranny and a 4.9 final drive that you'd get worse gas mileage compared to a gsr, plus reduce engine life. Same can be said that a boosted car will break down faster than a n/a car, because of the excessive cylinder pressure's and the down trickling effect. Same can be said that azenis used on the street are a waste because of the reduced mileage and one shouldn't be driving at the tire limits anyways.

This debate can go both ways, naturally with anything car related engine, mechanical, electrical more heat, vibration and increased speed will wear down a car faster, but that is modding.

[arc_55]

Agreed and this is where theory and real life experience collide. I agree with you on both points fuel pump and injectors, but it doesn't mean it's that unsafe. If you wanted to further on the theory, you shouldn't upgrade to a higher flow fuel pump/bigger injectors anyways, because the fuel lines are rated for stock pressure thus weakening the lines over time. Same with too much pressure in the fuel rail/lines can actually decrease efficiency because of the excessive flow and back up the fuel return line to the tank.

Same can be said above revving to 9200rpm versus stock 8400rpm. Same can be said that driving with an itr tranny and a 4.9 final drive that you'd get worse gas mileage compared to a gsr, plus reduce engine life. Same can be said that a boosted car will break down faster than a n/a car, because of the excessive cylinder pressure's and the down trickling effect. Same can be said that azenis used on the street are a waste because of the reduced mileage and one shouldn't be driving at the tire limits anyways.

This debate can go both ways, naturally with anything car related engine, mechanical, electrical more heat, vibration and increased speed will wear down a car faster, but that is modding.


And this is why people fail and the people that do it right and have good results are those others idol.
:cool:

[hotkarl]

very true gary.
Why spend all that money/time/effort just to cheap out and not change the fuel pump/injectors. I mean, jeebuz, a walbro can be had for about $100-150 nowadays and takes 20 minutes to install (unless its an EF) and is very cheap insurance IMO for any setup boosted or n/a.
I'm not a fan of running shit to its limits. Yes, i've squeezed upwards of 225+whp out of a stock fuel pump, but was i telling the guy not to change his fuel pump and that his car was ok like that?....no, i was highly recommending changing the pump for the exact reasons arc_55 explained above.
I've also ran injectors over 80% duty cycle, but again, not something i recommend. Another downside of running excessively high duty cycle or maxing out your fuel pump is the inconsistency of fuel delivery. One pass you could be ok, right at the AFR you tuned it for, then the next pass it'll be a little lean, then the next pass it'll be ok again, then the next pass it'll be half a point richer than what you're aiming for, then the next pass it'll be lean again, and so on and so on. This is the first sign that your current fuel system needs some upgrading.
Unfortunately, with the internet, people can post up whatever the hell they want, true or not, good advice or not. I see a lot of people running a FMU, stock injectors, VAFC and stock fuel pump b/c they see other people do that on the internet or they read somewhere that that is a good idea. That doesn't mean that it IS a good idea.

[Wildoutwhitegsr]

And this is why people fail and the people that do it right and have good results are those others idol.
:cool:


Truer words have never been spoken.

very true gary.
Why spend all that money/time/effort just to cheap out and not change the fuel pump/injectors. I mean, jeebuz, a walbro can be had for about $100-150 nowadays and takes 20 minutes to install (unless its an EF) and is very cheap insurance IMO for any setup boosted or n/a.
I'm not a fan of running shit to its limits. Yes, i've squeezed upwards of 225+whp out of a stock fuel pump, but was i telling the guy not to change his fuel pump and that his car was ok like that?....no, i was highly recommending changing the pump for the exact reasons arc_55 explained above.
I've also ran injectors over 80% duty cycle, but again, not something i recommend. Another downside of running excessively high duty cycle or maxing out your fuel pump is the inconsistency of fuel delivery. One pass you could be ok, right at the AFR you tuned it for, then the next pass it'll be a little lean, then the next pass it'll be ok again, then the next pass it'll be half a point richer than what you're aiming for, then the next pass it'll be lean again, and so on and so on. This is the first sign that your current fuel system needs some upgrading.
Unfortunately, with the internet, people can post up whatever the hell they want, true or not, good advice or not. I see a lot of people running a FMU, stock injectors, VAFC and stock fuel pump b/c they see other people do that on the internet or they read somewhere that that is a good idea. That doesn't mean that it IS a good idea.


You know that's the thing I don't understand myself and you look at the cost of "upgrading" to the better parts and it doesn't make sense why those people don't. Anyways I was just trying to prove that 310cc injectors are able to make 231whp without being at 100% duty cycle like someone posted above.


You also forgot the boosted guys on stock suspension, stock brake pads and winter tires....lol

[AnthonyR]

well that 231 whp is not on a stock fuel pump or stock FPR.

iam also running a walbro 255lbh, i would never run a stock fuel pump on those numbers.

i got my fuel pressure at about 40+psi

[arc_55]

well that 231 whp is not on a stock fuel pump or stock FPR.

iam also running a walbro 255lbh, i would never run a stock fuel pump on those numbers.

i got my fuel pressure at about 40+psi

is that on a vacuum variable fuel pressure regulator? Is it set at 40psi at idle with the vacuum line off or on? Stock injectors?

[AnthonyR]

injectors are the h22 injectors, thats 40psi at idle, i think it will go to about 44 or 45 psi when the engine is reved.

[AnthonyR]

these injectors are actually off markapa i bought them off him like a year ago for 20 bucks.

[Dominik]

Trenell. IIRC the walbro 255 is rated 255 @ 12V.
So in order for it flow 255, It would require a re-wire.
I really don't see the issue if it's wired correctly.

As for the fuel lines. It's become very inexpensive to run -6AN braided lines from the tank to the rail, to the FPR and return to tank.
I also don't quite understand why people are not conscience of it.

You can have a fuel system costing you $600 but it will be good for close to 1000hp. But now we're talking far beyond 231whp.

[arc_55]

Trenell. IIRC the walbro 255 is rated 255 @ 12V.
So in order for it flow 255, It would require a re-wire.
I really don't see the issue if it's wired correctly.

As for the fuel lines. It's become very inexpensive to run -6AN braided lines from the tank to the rail, to the FPR and return to tank.
I also don't quite understand why people are not conscience of it.

You can have a fuel system costing you $600 but it will be good for close to 1000hp. But now we're talking far beyond 231whp.

the fuel pump is always getting source voltage its amperage and resitance that matters. Each walbro 255 is not the same and is made for each cars setup otherwise the pump would draw too much and keep blowing your pump fuse. The pumps are designed to flow more then then the oem pumps but still retain the stock wiring and amperage rating while keeping resistance acceptable. This is where some poeple try and think outside the box and rewire the pump, but as i mentioned before all you are doing is scarifcing the pumps reliablity. It may not be important to you now but lets say 3 months down the road when the pump fails on you then you wish you would have done it properly.

[arc_55]

injectors are the h22 injectors, thats 40psi at idle, i think it will go to about 44 or 45 psi when the engine is reved.

do you have a vacuum variable pressure regulator though? which means does a vacuum line connect to this regulator?

[AnthonyR]

yes their is a vacum line of the FPR

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/plzbeleiveit/DSCF0528.jpg

[Dominik]

Walbro's are generic. The install kit varies from car to car. Either 195, or 255 low pressure or high pressure.
I can use a "talon" walbro in my civic with the right install kit. The pump has the same part number.....

[sikkkkktegra]

yeapers.. dom is correct... most cases u just modify the mounting plate.

[arc_55]

yes u can use a supra tt or any other pump aslong as it works with the amperage of the stock fuel pump circuit. You might be able to get away with many of them but aslong as they don;t spike high amps or draw too much. Simply replacing the fuse with a higher amp one wouldn't cut it. The pump wouldn;t mount exactly the same and you would have to use a hose clamp to tie it and ensure you have it mounted low enough.

Dom i guess walbro has designed it to be a low amperage pump to cover many applications and does not go above 15 amps. Although i have seen people spike them above 15amps, but i am wondering if thats a different issue.

[AnthonyR]

lol but now my question why would you need to increase the amps on a walbro 255lph on a 230whp setup ?

theirs no point im assuming the pump is over kill enough even on low amps.

[Wildoutwhitegsr]

Trenell. IIRC the walbro 255 is rated 255 @ 12V.
So in order for it flow 255, It would require a re-wire.
I really don't see the issue if it's wired correctly.

As for the fuel lines. It's become very inexpensive to run -6AN braided lines from the tank to the rail, to the FPR and return to tank.
I also don't quite understand why people are not conscience of it.

You can have a fuel system costing you $600 but it will be good for close to 1000hp. But now we're talking far beyond 231whp.

There isn't a issue if wired correctly, but in my previous/earlier post I made it seem as if it's as easy as running a 12v line straight to the pump. When I should of added add in relay's and fuse etc to make sure the pump is only on when the car is, and that in case of a spike etc your protected. There's more, but I'm too lazy to go into detail. Anyways your correct; wired correctly there is no issue.

For the fuel lines I don't think most people think about it because no one is at that level yet where there needed, the closest person I can think of is Mike aka Gameover at 5xx whp level, but this is where theory and real world experience comes in again. In theory you should replace the fuel lines with stainless, but in the real world people have been pushing and continue to push upto 600whp on stock fuel lines, the limit is somewhere around 650-700whp before ones needs to upgrade, but like ARC said "why risk it?" for the little bit more on the upgraded lines. That all comes down to the person though I think.

lol but now my question why would you need to increase the amps on a walbro 255lph on a 230whp setup ?

theirs no point im assuming the pump is over kill enough even on low amps.

around 650whp walbro 255's aren't enough pump....that's usually when people upgrade to a aeromotive etc. but there is no reason to do it on a 231whp motor.

[arc_55]

yes their is a vacum line of the FPR

i am curious of the pressure with the vacuum line off

lol but now my question why would you need to increase the amps on a walbro 255lph on a 230whp setup ?

theirs no point im assuming the pump is over kill enough even on low amps.

u don't need to you will be fine


There isn't a issue if wired correctly, but in my previous/earlier post I made it seem as if it's as easy as running a 12v line straight to the pump. When I should of added add in relay's and fuse etc to make sure the pump is only on when the car is, and that in case of a spike etc your protected. There's more, but I'm too lazy to go into detail. Anyways your correct; wired correctly there is no issue.

For the fuel lines I don't think most people think about it because no one is at that level yet where there needed, the closest person I can think of is Mike aka Gameover at 5xx whp level, but this is where theory and real world experience comes in again. In theory you should replace the fuel lines with stainless, but in the real world people have been pushing and continue to push upto 600whp on stock fuel lines, the limit is somewhere around 650-700whp before ones needs to upgrade, but like ARC said "why risk it?" for the little bit more on the upgraded lines. That all comes down to the person though I think.



around 650whp walbro 255's aren't enough pump....that's usually when people upgrade to a aeromotive etc. but there is no reason to do it on a 231whp motor.

I have seen poeple spike in nissans and hondas and acuras which causes them to blow fuses. I am not sure if there if it is a faulty pump or bad installation or anything else. I also have heard from lean conditions when they get low on gas but i think thats an installation issue for sure and not ensureing the pump is low enough in the tank. I don't know if this is a problem that varies by manufactuer and how there mouting kit is setup or just truely a installation issue. We all know how mnay poeple fail to follow instructions in the box or read a manual :cool:


i guess someone would need to test the fuel pumps volume within 30secs and multiply the volume by x2 and then by 60 (60 because for every min in an hour and by 2 to get one min) roughly find its total volume within one hour. I don;t know if this is the most accurate method, but will give you a very good idea. say if it turn out 200lph vs. 255lph then you can question why. I know with oem pumps and checking volume we do 30seconds for every 2 or 1 pints i beleive?

[Dominik]

Even thicker gauge wire can increase flow on a stock fuel pump and help maintain a higher pressure/volume throughout it's entire operating range. Stock wiring limits voltage to the pump, which in high horsepower applications can severely affect flow output. I've seen some cases of only 10V on boosted cars reaching the pump. Rewiring the pump with thicker wire and a relay can restore the voltage to that of the battery (13-14V) maximizing output.

Some people use the re-wire as theft protection, you could simply run a power source to a switch, to the pump inline with a fuse and replace the stock wire with the upgraded (8-10ga) wire.
You really only need a 30A auto relay, applicable inline fuse holder and misc connectors, shrink wrap etc etc.

[arc_55]

yes you would need a rewire on a stock fuel pump but this goes back to what i said before. It will be a matter of time before the pump fails due to overworking the pump.

Your looking for higher amperage (current) and voltage and resitance are variable all to one another. The fuel pump is wired in series and all your seeing is a voltage drop which is normal. Like i said you are looking for amperage not voltage even though all are variable to one another. The reason for upgrading the wiring allows you to fuse the circuit with a higher amp fuse and applicapble relay. Say if you were to upgrade the fuse in the stock wiring you would be risking the wiring as it could burn up.

basically what it comes down to is use a walbro when required with applicapable mods.

[Dominik]

What doesn't make sense is you're saying that if the walbro is rated at 255, and you make it work 255lph you're saying it will prematurely fail? due to it being over worked doing what it's supposed to be doing?
Thats the same as saying a 14B is efficent at 14psi, and then saying it will fail prematurely because it's operating at it's optimum efficency...

Am I missing your point? I'm not trying to argue with you just not sure what your point is.

[arc_55]

sorry dom i don't mean to go back and forth which each other here either :cool:

This is what i meant..

The oem pump should not have altered wiring/relay/fuse do to its design. If the pumps were to have more amps other then specificied then you risk burning the pump out in a short period of time. I think there was an article on the internet saying that if rewired stock honda pumps were capable of 400 hp. The problem i have with that is reliablity. Now i was un aware that the walbro 255 was a generic and that the install kits so i was cautious to say don't up the amperage as you risk pump reliablity and wiring. Now heres the thing i am thinking about too.... If a fuel volume test were done on a walbro and then compare it to the rewire (obvious the higher amperage ... the rewire, but it would be good to see what the volume was). Also the other question is what is walbros recommended peak amperage for there 255's. It would be nice to see a chart or something from them! I am sure wiring varies for the pumps from manufactuer so i wonder what will give you the realiability but volume aswell. If anyone is in question in about how much power can there fuel system handle then i am sure through tuning you will tell for sure and i am sure you can forsee this being an issue ahead of time.

If walbro has labelled it a 255lph pump then you can simply do a fuel volume test and see while monitoring it with an amp meter or multimeter on a stock wiring system. I am sure that would answer our questions ! I might e-mail walbro about this as it has me curious and hopefully they can answer some qestions.